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munksbeer 9 hours ago [-]
Can I please congratulate you on your README. It rapidly tells me what I'm looking at, and why I might be interested in the project. There are so many READMEs around that ... just don't do that. They ramble about technical implementation details, how their language choice is amazing, and a third of the way through the README, I'm still left wondering, "but what does this project do?".
laserbeam 7 hours ago [-]
I find it to be confusing LLM spam. It spends a lot of time talking about Qt APIs, and dearimgui... most of which could go in a separate page.
But the worst part is all code snippets are followed by an image which is not related to the code snippet. It's not what you get by typing the code... it's something completely different.
actinium226 1 hours ago [-]
Did you skip Part I?
meowface 9 hours ago [-]
Many of my old >1K star GitHub projects were not that great, but I always made sure to create the cleanest, simplest possible READMEs, inspired by things like the Python requests library's docs (https://github.com/psf/requests). I think it helped a lot in their success.
I remember someone once created a GitHub issue requesting I turn the README into some verbose technical thing with full API docs and a bunch of people replied saying they greatly preferred the "pitch + high-level examples" style.
stuaxo 2 hours ago [-]
Would be good if you could write the README without an LLM
nmstoker 9 hours ago [-]
Yes, this is so important and yet so often not considered. This README was pretty good, thorough and not ambiguous. The number of projects that assume you know what their obscure idea relates to is huge, mainly as the authors can't put themselves in the shoes of their audience.
rubatuga 9 hours ago [-]
Yes, this is definitely one of my pet peeves. Just give me input --> output, then everything in between.
0x69420 3 hours ago [-]
...really? for my part, after a few paragraphs i felt in my bones that i was reading undisclosed llm output and noped out of evaluating the entire thing any further.
but also the fact that yours is the most upvoted comment tells me there are entire swathes of people for whom that style works, and i am interested to get in people's heads about that, because it might yield some insight re: for what kind of audience these labs are optimising the style of text these models generate. so, if someone is reading this comment, and you broadly agree with the comment i am replying to, please answer these questions:
1. is english your native language?
2. what about the prose do you find appealing?
3. do you not find the structure (colossal wall of text, infodumping about largely irrelevant details) annoying/noisy?
4. does the word-to-word style and clichéd phrasing not immediately set off your llm alarm bells?
i guess people can answer if they disagree too, if they really want to
hoistbypetard 1 hours ago [-]
I could tell within a few sentences that it was naked slop, and I was grateful to be able to nope out rapidly, without missing anything.
flipthefrog 7 hours ago [-]
Not to mention that it includes screengrabs! Which a shocking amount of gui and web projects dont do
varispeed 7 hours ago [-]
It still sounds like LLM which is nauseating to read. For instance: "Blender's interface is famous for how it feels. You press a number field and drag: the cursor vanishes, the value glides under your hand, and you never hit the edge of the screen. " that's ChatGPT writing.
whatthejesus 7 hours ago [-]
It is ALL AI generated I can say that because I recently worked on a landing page and wrestled with Claude Opus the WHOLE way through. Claude has no idea how to write copy. Neither do any of the others, you have to edit with a fine-toothed comb.
To the project maintainer: don’t ask people to read a terrible AI generated sales pitch novella that quantifies your AI generated port against every UI framework out there.
Here’s the obvious giveaways:
“ 4. The many ways in”
“ Python, four ways”
“ tkinter: all 7,846 public names of tkinter and ttk. Nine real programs behave identically on the standard library and on BUI.”
“ Rust: the web platform, natively”
Ugh it’s excruciating. You’re better off with a readme that shows a few screenshots and installation instructions.
Groxx 5 hours ago [-]
It also says it's all LLM explicitly near the bottom in the FAQ
stuaxo 2 hours ago [-]
I could handle the API being LLM generated (but maybe gently prize it out over time), it's the copy that gives me LLM nausea[1]
1 - thanks to the poster that mentioned nausea, I've been looking for the word to describe LLM based writing for a while and it's perfect.
varispeed 2 hours ago [-]
My mind checks out when I see LLM prose. Didn't get that far.
busssard 3 hours ago [-]
i am way too lazy to write good documentation.
BUt i also dont want to have anyone read claudette-prose so i noticed that
"down to earth" and "hobby-project" does a good job.
its still not perfect but better than the vanilla output.
eg.
https://github.com/busssard/OpenRing
2 hours ago [-]
varispeed 2 hours ago [-]
This is why I stopped using Claude. ChatGPT is better in that regards, but you still have to write a ton of rules for it to read half-decent and then edit it manually anyway.
whatthejesus 34 minutes ago [-]
None of them is better than the others on the frontier. But to be honest, the models are designed for acing STEM exams not doing copywriting.
This is further evidence of the need for small models doing specific things well.
Where I would say models fit in the process is establishing the general layout of documentation and iteratively refining things out. Interestingly, it’s the same for image generation too. But 9 out of 10 it creates incomplete work that needs refinement.
Go wide, then hone in, refine. There’s no such thing as getting AI to single shot creative tasks. Which is funny because everyone thought writers are on the chopping block initially, but that is unequivocally NOT the case.
Even technical tasks, agents doing it their own way yields garbage in some right. It’s just a question of how long it runs before it goes down a path of no return.
Human in the loop is the only way. And, to be honest, what’s the f*king rush anyway? We all need to slow down. Good ideas with unravel in time. :)
0x69420 2 hours ago [-]
it's funny how these claudese constructions also come out of lil baby local qwens and stuff too. i guess they're just directly distilling a claude endpoint, or whatever.
like, if people are gonna be turning the crank to generate prose-like text from statistical models and calling it a day, aren't "subagents" a hip new thing nowadays? there do exist models that aren't overcooked to impressively bad long-tail in the pursuit of maximum coding benchmark scores. such other models generate prose-like text that is significantly less miserable to wade through.
if you're a vibecoder who's terminally committed to the bit, for god's sake, at least tell a local gemma to draft your readme or something. an occasional outright falsehood is less damaging to usability than the experience of reading feeling like trudging through a pool filled with treacle. (mind, both are a violation of trust, and a failure to deliver proof of work, and please stop, but at least if the falsehoods are comprehensible and identifiable there's light at the end of the tunnel)
stuaxo 2 hours ago [-]
Thanks for the word nausea - I've been trying to put my finger on that - I kept thinking of sickness but that's too much, LLM nausea is definitely a thing.
Edit: I found reading those examples in the most sanctimonious voice I could imagine seemed very plausible - maybe LLMs sound like they are up their own arse.
minraws 1 hours ago [-]
I don't get this comment, the readme felt like slop to me. What makes this any better.. I genuinely want to understand why someone thinks this is a good readme sure I may have seen worse but I have seen much better readmes.
munksbeer 34 minutes ago [-]
The very first line of their README:
"Blender's user interface, as a library you can use from Python, Rust, JavaScript (React, Svelte), C, C++ and Dear ImGui."
Then, the README very quickly continues with "What BUI is" and "Why BUI exists". These are all the exact things I want to know, ASAP, when I encounter a new project. The language reads perfectly fine to me.
Do you know what I don't want to know first? What the startup time is, what language you wrote it in (because you think it makes your project cooler), some other random internal details about the performance of the thing, when I don't even yet know what the thing is.
raincole 19 minutes ago [-]
> what language you wrote it in
You mean something like:
> turns it into a standalone UI library with a small C core
...?
Or this:
> At the heart of BUI is the kit: a small runtime written in C
......??
I personally have no issue of this, but the more I read your comments the more confused I got.
ppmpreetham 8 hours ago [-]
I can't figure out if you're being sarcastic
munksbeer 8 hours ago [-]
The very first line of their README:
"Blender's user interface, as a library you can use from Python, Rust, JavaScript (React, Svelte), C, C++ and Dear ImGui."
This tells me a huge amount of what I need to know, if I'm interested in this project or not.
But by that stage, even though it isn't very far down the page, I'm already checked out.
ppmpreetham 8 hours ago [-]
thank you, I thought you didn't like it lol.
let me know if you use it.
We also have a discord server, lmk if you're planning on using BUI!
twitexplore 6 hours ago [-]
It's not a complete sentence, is that a positive thing?
nutjob2 5 hours ago [-]
It is complete, if you realize that its the subtitle to the "BUI" title. Read it as if there is a colon between the two.
raincole 6 hours ago [-]
I'm confused. Are you being sarcastic? Isn't this readme in the most typical LLM-ism?
criddell 1 hours ago [-]
They are not being sarcastic. The first first sentence tells you what it is.
If that's an LLM-ism, then it's one that I hope spreads.
dev0p 13 hours ago [-]
I love the general idea behind Blender's UI.
And I do appreciate the effort that goes into it, especially in the latest versions as it got much better,
But I really really really REALLY don't want that UI in anything else other than Blender.
Please don't.
OtherShrezzing 13 hours ago [-]
If you're working on a small game project without an existing framework/platform, you usually build a really bargain-basement game editor alongside it. That editor takes a long time, and it's often spent in arranging UI stuff.
If you're already using Blender to make assets, there's some benefit to stuffing Blender's UI into your game editor too.
SkiFire13 11 hours ago [-]
In that case it would be competing with imgui, egui and similar libraries, but the submission is comparing it to GPUI.
throwaway27448 4 hours ago [-]
Do imgui/egui have comparable numbers of interface objects and parameters to adjust their look and behavior? I certainly wouldn't suggest either as an alternative to QT-level interfaces—which seems to be what's offered here.
12 hours ago [-]
nonethewiser 7 hours ago [-]
>If you're working on a small game project without an existing framework/platform, you usually build a really bargain-basement game editor alongside it. That editor takes a long time, and it's often spent in arranging UI stuff.
Not in an age of AI.
I mean if you want to code all this stuff by hand, I get it. But that's a choice. And since it's a choice that means shoehorning a Blender UI into a "bargain-basement game editor" (and having a "bargain basement game editor) isnt really needed. You absolutely don't need to spend a lot of time arranging UI stuff.
Game tooling is pretty trivial now and it's not user-facing. Again, I fully understand why someone would want to do this themselves still but let's not pretend thats not a choice at this point.
beepbooptheory 2 hours ago [-]
Just curious: if this is really the case, why are you even spending time commenting on and thinking about one particular UI framework or not? As a dummy still writing code and making games by hand, I know why it interests me, but isn't this like an archaic topic for you? What is there to actually gain or learn from one library or another? Can't you just think about high level concepts and pure ideas now? Spend money to do the rest?
nullstyle 2 hours ago [-]
I think it’s just about as weird as questioning somebody’s motives on an Internet comment thread. I certainly share GP’s opinion about game tooling, but i’m here because i still care about making good software and that involves learning about and navigating technological developments as they happen. Is that sufficient reason for you?
Edit: the snark I’m responding to has been edited out
11 hours ago [-]
archerx 12 hours ago [-]
After trying blender for about 20 years I still find the UI/UX awful. I think a lot of the new blender generation has baby duck syndrome.
mejutoco 11 hours ago [-]
Blender had a very different ui before and a big redesign, so most people have different opinions between the old and the new design. It sounds like you find all of them awful. I find that surprising and wonder what 3d program you find have good ui.
archerx 10 hours ago [-]
I have used every version of blender and it has always felt harder than it should.
I have used 3Ds max, maya, lightwave, cinema4D, milkshape, wings, Houdini, unreal engine 1 - 5, Hammer, Threejs editor and probably more. The Blender UI is worse than all of the above.
mejutoco 9 hours ago [-]
At the time of blender's old ui 3Ds max had menus nested 5-6 level deep in an ui that would make gimp very good design. Between that 3Ds max praise, conflating old blender ui and new blender ui, and not providing any specifics on what makes blender so bad (I just provided some about 3D max) I have to assume there is no truth to it. We will agree to disagree. I think blender ui is excellent, but a 3d editor is a specialised app.
bacheaul 10 hours ago [-]
The question was which one do you think has a good UI... I'd be keen to know your opinion on this as well, what you think the current high water mark is in 3D design software UI is, or do you think they all suck, but Blender just sucks the most?
throwaway27448 4 hours ago [-]
I learned on blender and now all the other editors are ruined for me. I wonder why they haven't added a blender mode at this point for people who want more expressive use.
Zbrush is ok.
miniupuchaty 9 hours ago [-]
With 3Ds Max listed as good UI we really must just have different tastes, hah! :D
You've given quite a list of tools with different purpose.
For 3D work I would personally rate
Modo 3D, Zbrush > Blender, Houdini > Softimage XSI > Maya > space intentionally left empty :P > 3Ds max
Blender UI looks very nice and is very customizable. I think it's "ok" in beginner discoverability (none of 3D softs is great at that really) but when you get experienced with it it's one of the best.
I really like how they managed to keep all the tools and views pretty consistent given how many things you can do in it. Whether you are working on objects, vertices, nodes, movie clips you get the same shortcuts where possible.
tredre3 3 hours ago [-]
Fascinating, I would have ranked Softimage XSI above blender (even modern blender), it was just that intuitive to me.
3Ds max being dead last is fitting, people who think it's peak UI just have stockholm syndrome in my opinion.
wtetzner 7 hours ago [-]
> I think a lot of the new blender generation has baby duck syndrome.
Maybe some of them do, but even though I disliked the UI at first, I've come to appreciate it as I've learned it. It's simply different from most other software, so that obviously causes friction. However, I think once you learn it, it's quite a good system. There's a tradeoff between optimizing for familiarity/new users, and providing an optimized experience for advanced users.
glimshe 9 hours ago [-]
I'm not a professional designer or 3D modeler but I've used Blender quite a bit. I know what you mean but the latest UI post redesign isn't bad.
Blender does a LOT of stuff. Its not an easy product to create an UI for. But I think the problem is much bigger when coming from a different 3D package than when learning from scratch.
My teenage kids use Blender as the first 3D package they've ever learned. I was impressed with how quickly they ramped up through videos and learning from each other.
sehugg 11 hours ago [-]
Apparently there is a crowd still using 2.79b, the last version with the old UI (current LTS is 5.2)
My baby duck fingers could probably pick up LightWave 3D again in an hour or two. I could never gel with Blender.
somat 6 hours ago [-]
I agree, I don't think blender has changed as much as people say. But I don't think it is baby duck, I think blender always had a good UI, it has just taken the rest of the world 20 years to catch up.
A lot of people go "Blender UI was horrible, but they redesigned the whole thing and now it is good" Having used blender in a minor role for 20 years(i think I started on 1.7), I think this was just a big psyop by the blender team. Sort of how the client goes "Change things" and you change nothing, wait a day, and tell the client "I made the changes you requested" client: "I love it"
I am not saying the blender team has not made substantial improvements to the UI over the years, but the core is still that same quick blender workflow, This is very different from the normal clunky GUI design of 3d modelers of the era and as such blender got a reputation for having a weird UI which was easily translated to blender having a bad UI. So what do you do when you have an unwarranted bad reputation? Especially now that the rest of the world has caught up and is using your flows and they are not so weird anymore. Make a dark mode and put out a big press release "we redesigned everything, it's good now" so people will try it.
thelaxiankey 3 hours ago [-]
I feel like the 2.49 to 2.6 update was a bit overblown, but the 2.8 update was pretty damn massive to me eyes
cl3misch 12 hours ago [-]
First time I hear "baby duck syndrome".
> Baby duck syndrome is a cognitive bias where people automatically prefer the first system, interface, or product they learn to use, judging all later versions or alternatives by how well they match that initial experience.
That's actually extremely common in scientific (GUI) software. And in any professional setting I guess.
fc417fc802 12 hours ago [-]
> That's actually extremely common in scientific (GUI) software. And in any professional setting I guess.
I don't think that qualifies. There's an important distinction to be made between an aesthetic preference versus a professional not appreciating a tool being mucked with. Anything that interferes with my workflow without immediately providing substantial benefit is something that's actively harmful. In fact even if it does hypothetically provide huge benefits I still might not want to deal with it right this second.
conartist6 9 hours ago [-]
......huh?
So if it's for an employer it's rational but if you're making the same choice for yourself it isn't? If one of those is baby duck syndrome they all are.
patcon 9 hours ago [-]
I think they're noting how the nature of baby duck syndrome might depend on whether the change introduced is within something that is for work or for play.
As in, that people who refuse change in their play activity are in some way different (less rational? more "syndromatic"?) than those who refuse change in their breadwinning activity.
I see the distinction, but am not sure I agree. It's just a neurotype spectrum of the same phenomenon. Baby duck is baby duck
fc417fc802 42 minutes ago [-]
Not quite. The distinction is between avoiding an articulable and concrete negative impact versus mere aesthetic considerations. For example, this pan is more difficult to use because it is somewhat undersized for what I'm trying to cook versus I don't like this pan because it's the wrong color or has the wrong accents or whatever. I understand baby duck syndrome to refer to the latter - ie having an unsubstantiated bias towards aspects of the thing first encountered.
lentil_soup 13 hours ago [-]
Why not? For similar applications it would be really beneficial to not have to reimplement all the little UI interactions they've polished over the years
luckydata 12 hours ago [-]
Polished is not the word I reach for when I think of Blender's UI
20k 12 hours ago [-]
This is just repeating a common meme. Blender's UI layout and organisation is fine, but this is a UI library. There's nothing wrong with blender's UI technically, in fact its pretty decent overall
fc417fc802 12 hours ago [-]
> Blender's UI layout and organisation is fine
I absolutely detest it (TBF I haven't used it for the past ~2 years) but I also recognize that it's an incredibly difficult problem space that lacks an obviously good solution, the tool itself is inherently and irreducibly complex, it's a free project with extremely limited resources, it's been consistently improving over time, etc, etc.
DrewADesign 10 hours ago [-]
Everybody hates all serious 3d application interfaces… they’re just complicated. I’m professionally competent in Houdini, Maya, Max, Blender, Zbrush, Marvelous Designer, the UE editor… they all suck in various ways but it’s all a giant set of trade-offs and priorities. Beyond that, lots of these programs have lineages that go back decades longer than almost any modern dev environment and being so complex, UI changes can be quite disruptive. Kind of like why so many *nix cli tools are the same as they were decades ago. A lot of (no, not all) developers think they have the most complex tooling in the computer world — they definitely don’t.
Jtarii 6 hours ago [-]
Blender may be the single most polished open source project ever made.
It is actually a miracle that it is as good as it is considering other open source graphics programs like GIMP are horrendous to use.
Andrex 6 hours ago [-]
I'm using it as a video editor for Linux, and I'm constantly surprised how rock solid and fast it is. DaVinci wouldn't even run on my PC without a GPU, but Blender can run on anything I throw at it. And aside from those two, the video editing situation on Linux is a wasteland. I'm so glad Blender added VSE, and that I found it and learned it.
coldtea 10 hours ago [-]
There's a lot of thought in Blender's UI, and a lot of improvements over the years.
Fundamentally all 3d modelers have inherent degree of complexity. The ones that give a "simple" facade with fewer options make other things harder or having to look into obscure places.
All of that are beside the point however: people will use this as a GUI library, not as a Blender's UX design.
soulofmischief 4 hours ago [-]
This was true 20 years ago but has not been true for a decade. Blender evolved from among the worst UI/UX on the planet to among the best. It's now fast, intuitive, decently hierarchical and well-organized, leans into search and pie menus, in general it's very polished and in some ways ahead of the curve.
omnimus 10 hours ago [-]
Can you give examples of what are polished UIs in your opinion?
atoav 12 hours ago [-]
No? I think there would easily be other use cases where Blenders UI would be very suitable, e.g. Audio software.
It is not a UI paradigm that you would use for just anything, but for certain poweruser software it is one of the best paradigms I have seen, especially since they managed to get rid of 90% of the rough corners in the past decade of development.
But a good design system does the trick. Artcraft apps use this library and their Adobe clones come very close to the original apps.
anthk 9 hours ago [-]
Every Arftcraft app and non Artcraft related software clones trying to reuse the Artcraft libs (craft-libs) already have everything ready to use.
wavewrangler 11 hours ago [-]
Yeah but, this can’t possibly be any worse than tkinter.
Q: “Whats wrong with tkinter?!?!”
A: It sucks, that’s what!
PalmPilotProMax 13 hours ago [-]
Imagine this spinning off and becoming this generation's GTK.
mkl 12 hours ago [-]
Not going to happen, as it's GPL.
Andrex 6 hours ago [-]
There can never be a compatible LGPL release?
mkl 5 hours ago [-]
Only by reimplementing it all, as Blender is GPL.
haellsigh 3 hours ago [-]
So, about a week's worth of vibe coding.
zerr 11 hours ago [-]
Akin to Java in Oracle vs Google case, keeping the API but LLM-ing the implementation can be considered as fair use.
flipthefrog 7 hours ago [-]
There's this thing called Qt...
coldtea 10 hours ago [-]
Typical HN top comment negativity :)
That UI is fine to be on many more places than Blender, given that many libraries people use are way worse. Imgui for one example.
amelius 13 hours ago [-]
How about a simpler UI consisting of just a text input field for AI.
coldtea 10 hours ago [-]
Yeah, nothing like e.g. watching a video or drawing something and changing settings by asking AI.
jon-wood 13 hours ago [-]
Despite rumours to the contrary not everything is best interacted with via an LLM. If you want to go to that degree then have at it, all you need is an old school TTY on a serial cable, but the rest of us quite like having UIs designed to fulfil a purpose rather than a soup of Claudeish prose describing a progress bar.
atoav 12 hours ago [-]
"Oh you talk about different paint brushes and pigments? How about just hiring a painter?"
Yeah you can do that. If you have low standards and don't need control of the details.
lukebitts 10 hours ago [-]
That's really cool! I burned some tokens trying to develop something similar but gave up halfway. A lot of people criticize Blender's UI but as someone who has been using blender for more than a decade now I just find it so elegant. Just the customizability itself is something I miss on most 3D software, if not all of them. Being able to just split screens and change their functionality, paired with the tabs for different workflows, it is a really good solution for a very complex software. I'd like to see a game engine with this much UI freedom.
foobarbecue 9 hours ago [-]
Do you think it's with trying to revive Blender Game Engine? Edit: just learned there's a fork https://upbge.org/
owenpalmer 50 minutes ago [-]
I love the blender game engine. To me, it's as nostalgic as a favorite video game from childhood. I spent countless hours building little projects as a kid. I was really sad when they removed it in v2.8
Now as an adult, I can see why they removed it. It didn't make sense to put resources into it.
I'm really happy about the UPBGE project. It doesn't compare to the capabilities of Godot, but that's okay. It just makes me happy that someone else cared about it enough to pour time into it.
anthk 9 hours ago [-]
BGE underperformed in my machine a lot, since AMD Athlon days. Godot it's far better.
ppmpreetham 8 hours ago [-]
Hi, the creator of BUI here.
I do hate vibe coding. So I took a different approach for BUI.
Instead of asking the agent to decouple the UI, I asked it to remove all the parts which isn't a part of UI logic.
Turns out AI is pretty good at removing than generating.
tredre3 3 hours ago [-]
"It isn't vibecoded, it's vibe-pruned!"
That's an interesting distinction. A distinction without a difference in my opinion, but a distinction nonetheless!
ppmpreetham 3 hours ago [-]
lmao, this made me laugh
papa0101 7 hours ago [-]
I still think Softimage|XSI was the best UI/UX that ever existed. Moving to Blender from it was... painful.
0xdeadbeefbabe 5 hours ago [-]
[dead]
nicoburns 11 hours ago [-]
For anyone looking at Rust GUI: don't expect GPUI to be the fastest. From what I've heard, Iced, Slint, Dioxus Native, Freya, etc are all faster. Despite claims of being blazingly fast, GPUI isn't that optimized. Zed gets away with it because it's UI is simple.
bita_nidir 10 hours ago [-]
Really? From what I've heard, Iced, Slint, Dioxus Native, Freya, etc are all slower.
hackyhacky 10 hours ago [-]
If only there were some way to determine speed based on observable data. Oh well maybe some day.
nicoburns 7 hours ago [-]
Some actual numbers (vibe coded benchmark ported from the JS framework benchmark):
These are CPU-only times for the state management / style / layout / etc, but don't include rasterization (additional work in the benchmark harness required to measure GPU time sensibly), probably aren't fully apples-to-apples, and could probably do with testing some more complex layouts.
nu11ptr 6 hours ago [-]
Did you test gpui_fast? I'm curious how it compares.
nicoburns 6 hours ago [-]
I did not, but judging from it's README it may well solve most of the issues.
dzogchen 8 hours ago [-]
Why the snarky comment? We already have to data points: one person heard it was faster, another person heard it was slower. If more and more people tell what they've heard then we will know the truth. Please go read how science works!
moi2388 2 hours ago [-]
Now if only we could peer review our peers’ reviews..
Matumio 10 hours ago [-]
If only the game I am surely going to develop some day would not waste 7% of the rendering budget on drawing the menu sliders! Must research all options now before I start. Must make an objective choice, so I need number that can be compared neutrally between frameworks. So, rendering performance it is.
shaky-carrousel 10 hours ago [-]
This must be the lowest effort hacker news comment ever. And I've made some really low effort myself.
rat9988 9 hours ago [-]
It is enough to counter the original claims though.
cropcirclbureau 7 hours ago [-]
This matches my findings. Asides from some performance footgun, it all strikes me as a single purpose, low level thing with a DX only an LLM could love. I suppose many today don't need more than that but I found the other Rust GUI solutions to be maturing rapidly with better stories across the board.
The main thing GPUI has going for it is mind share and that's a great thing to have. The mind share is unfortunately highly fragmented though as the original authors are not interested in selling a GUI library. Hopefully the community efforts will come together to produce a more polished and general library. A well used library is better than a better designed one maintained by a single person.
rudedogg 6 hours ago [-]
It really annoys me the rust library is named “GPUI”. That’s the name of this method that’s been used for eternity by games.
It’d be like naming my http library HTTP.
And it’s why Dear IMGUI isn’t just named “IMGUI”.
felixthehat 13 hours ago [-]
It would be such a boon if GIMP and Inkscape could adopt blender's fantastic GUI
felixthehat 12 hours ago [-]
A side by side screenshot of inkscape/gimp/blender for those who don't have them installed
One of the biggest problems with GIMP and Inkscape is how GTK renders numeric inputs. Look at the size of those +/- icons on the toolbar. For drawing software with lots of numeric inputs, that means an insane waste of space. Proprietary software like DaVinci and even Photopea have much smaller inputs, allowing them to create far more complex GUIs and featuring without cluttering the window.
rcxdude 8 hours ago [-]
Tbh, you could summarise a lot of the issues with their UI as "GTK"
TingPing 4 hours ago [-]
GIMP is far from a nice example of what GTK can do…
rcxdude 4 hours ago [-]
For sure, which is ironic given it was the application GTK was created to support. But even so, I don't think I've ever really seen a GTK-based application I actually liked (the rest of the UI is going to have to make up for the atrocious file picking dialog, for example)
rozab 9 hours ago [-]
A lot of these UIs were built around icons, following the direction MS Office took in the early 2000s. These once had colours and were somewhat distinguishable.
When they tried to jump on newer trends they made them all monochrome, and they don't have distinctive sillouettes so it's just completely inscrutable. That Inkscape screenshot is horrible. I count 129 icons.
And yet they still devote so much space to their bizarre colour palette, which is huge but still manages to omit most of the gamut? It's the kind of design that really only comes from decades of OSS development.
whywhywhywhy 9 hours ago [-]
It's just pointless to port GIMP over at this stage, you may as well do a greenfield project without the cultural baggage and poor foundations.
anon-3988 12 hours ago [-]
I just want to be able to crop and draw on top of images. Like old Paint. That is literally all I want to ever do with images. What should I use in Linux for this purpose
Photocraft has been working alright for me. I really struggled to learn GIMP, and I haven't found any easy lightweight image editing tool that replaces Paint.NET for me before trying Photocraft. It's still a little confusing since I'm not used to photoshop-like bindings and layout, but it hasn't been too hard to adjust. (I also only ever use it for small simple edits, drawing, cropping, color gradients, background removal, etc.)
Imustaskforhelp 11 hours ago [-]
There is paint.rs[0] as well which is intended to be paint.net open source alternative which works on Linux.
I easily modified pinta to do exactly this. You mean overlay, right? It can overlay, draw, manipulate, and I added a better file navigator so I can see which imagery I want to overlay to begin with. My use case was scientific in nature. What is yours, if you don’t mind my asking?
amlib 11 hours ago [-]
Use KolourPaint, it's a windows 9x/XP paintbrush clone with only a few improvements tacked on.
graynk 10 hours ago [-]
https://photoflare.io/ is the one I've found to be most usable. Pinta is just unpleasant to use at high resolutions and it's buggy.
bondarchuk 10 hours ago [-]
IrfanView in Wine, f12 opens a really old-school paint toolbox.
phillc73 12 hours ago [-]
GIMP of course.
adhamsalama 11 hours ago [-]
KPaint
41353aab 11 hours ago [-]
[dead]
kleiba2 13 hours ago [-]
De gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum.
vintermann 13 hours ago [-]
Gustus est sicut nates - divisus est.
amonith 11 hours ago [-]
lorem ipsum
rrgok 3 hours ago [-]
Lol ;)
Cthulhu_ 11 hours ago [-]
expecto patronum
darreninthenet 13 hours ago [-]
vel adrogantia
kangalioo 13 hours ago [-]
This feels like those AI models suddenly switching to Chinese mid-conversation
ghostghostghost 9 hours ago [-]
This entire thread caught me off guard lmao
jansan 12 hours ago [-]
cum emptore
archerx 12 hours ago [-]
Fantastic is the last word I would use the describe blenders UI/UX.
4k93n2 12 hours ago [-]
and then rename it blimp
p-e-w 13 hours ago [-]
Inkscape’s UI is much, much better than Blender’s, IMO.
grufkork 12 hours ago [-]
Inkscape is actually one of the few FOSS apps that is actually pretty intuitive to use. In fact, way back when I first started using vector design tools, I found it more intuitive/had better feedback than Illustrator (same thing can't be said about GIMP vs Photoshop). Inkscape really is great, but I have one huge gripe: I'm sure there's a system to it, but the file export name never stays what I want it to be...
luckydata 12 hours ago [-]
Weird, I find it to be an unscrutable turd
omnimus 10 hours ago [-]
People are confusing UX with UI. Inkscape UX might be better for many people but it would be hard to argue that Inkscape UI is better - it got better recently but it's still far from blender polish.
Jtarii 3 hours ago [-]
They are completely incomparable applications.
ipdashc 7 hours ago [-]
I'm surprised how much everyone's opinions differ in this thread. I've always found blender's UI incredible but inkscape's awful (though nowhere near as bad as gimp)
firethief 4 hours ago [-]
These complex tools are "intuitive" to whoever uses them the most
Shorel 11 hours ago [-]
With a much simpler set of tasks to accomplish.
cultofmetatron 13 hours ago [-]
Ive been thinking this would be amazing to do for ages. happy someone finally did it. its the perfect system for interfaces where speed matters. hope to see more 3d modellers, video editors, daws and simulation systems built on this.
ppmpreetham 4 hours ago [-]
thanks for sponsoring!!
Do let me know if there's anything you built with it :)
xlii 9 hours ago [-]
Others have noted that GPLv3 is required (which is a show stopper for many) but I'd like to mention that I find the pill saying "GPLv2 or Later" in the project itself misleading.
Especially since v2 and v3 have vastly different consequences.
xiange 13 hours ago [-]
It looks good, but the GPL license restricts the use cases
exitb 12 hours ago [-]
I was just a kid in 2002, so couldn’t contribute, but I remember checking the MoneyMeter going up every day, so that the community could buy out Blender and make it free software. GPL does restrict it, but it’s also only the only reason Blender is not a long forgotten piece of software from the 90s.
buster 12 hours ago [-]
Well.. Old discussion but I actually think it's the better way (sorry. MIT, you are more free then anything).
Either contribute back or stay away from open source work that others did for you.
thisismyanon2 12 hours ago [-]
Can you even copyright LLM output? Even the readme points out humans didn't make any of the code.
wtetzner 7 hours ago [-]
My understanding is that the LLM stripped away the non-UI code from Blender. The majority of the code is ported directly from GPL'd code from the Blender code base.
ZoomZoomZoom 11 hours ago [-]
In this case you just can't spin it any other way than it being a derivative work of Blender. And this is great.
the__alchemist 6 hours ago [-]
Most software is not GPL. When comparing this to alternatives like EGUI and GPUI for building a new app, this cannot be considered, while the others can.
GPL makes sense for applications like Blender. For a general purpose library, it's a dealbreaker.
BowBun 7 hours ago [-]
This is not the spirit of open source.
ivanjermakov 9 hours ago [-]
Is it bui's author decision or a consequence of Blender itself being GPL?
slopinthebag 10 hours ago [-]
in what way?
MobiusHorizons 1 hours ago [-]
I believe you could only use this library if the whole resulting app is also GPL.
kqp 11 hours ago [-]
Three things one must never ask: a woman her weight, a man his salary, and an HN commenter what “use case” the GPL ruined for them.
CarVac 7 hours ago [-]
In this case LGPL would be a more expected license for UI libraries, at least.
But that wouldn't work for a straight derivative of a GPL project.
panzi 10 hours ago [-]
Be aware of the license. You can only use it in GPLv3 programs.
bvrmn 12 hours ago [-]
I have a python "DSL" which allows to create a simple UI for synth parameters you also make in python. It uses Tk and looks like, mmm, Tk with all other Tk issues. Project was abandoned because of it. Looks like it's time to revive!
ppmpreetham 7 hours ago [-]
Hi, the creator here.
It's time to do it! Also we have a discord, if you end up reviving it, do share it over here:
I gave it a quick try (Fedora 44/Python/pyenv) with some Tkinter code which is supposed to just work... It doesn't.
pythonRon 11 hours ago [-]
After further exploration, it does work, but not without fiddling around with the tkinter code that exists. Not bad results; better than the original Tkinter rendering, anyway, unless you like that retro look.
ppmpreetham 6 hours ago [-]
Can you please tell me exactly what happened, so I could fix it?
Thank you!
bobajeff 8 hours ago [-]
This looks like a nice quick option for python scripts. I've made a web interface using fastapi for my python script because that seemed the most sane choice at the time but I would've used tkinter but for my lack of familiarity with tk/tcl and it's retro look.
ppmpreetham 4 hours ago [-]
Yessss, I'm using it myself for my quick and dirty uni projects currently.
Also speaking of FastAPI, have you checked out FastRAPI?
petterroea 12 hours ago [-]
The readme suggests it's a port of the blender code, at least the renderer is claimed to be so:
> The drawing code is a C port of Blender's own widget code
How can we guarantee BUI is still performant?
mixmastamyk 5 hours ago [-]
This looks great, are the docs mostly complete?
Was recently trying to learn a desktop toolkit again and was disappointed that the docs of pygtk and rust/iced end around page three. Many projects, little follow up. Probably should pick a toolkit from the 90s instead.
This seems different. Also, tabs that look like tabs! Love it.
ppmpreetham 4 hours ago [-]
Yes, we made sure that you wouldn't need docs, you can write your code in your favourite framework, and it works properly!
Why should kitty use Blender UI? It's just a terminal emulator with no GUI elements and is already GPU accelerated.
mariocesar 8 hours ago [-]
I have the same idea 10 years ago. :D I am so happy seeing that somebody was capable of making it. I always admire blenders UI and all the work developers did on making it.
hn_submit 12 hours ago [-]
This is excellent. I thought about this years ago for an OpenGL based desktop UI. Apple's UI is using something similar I believe. And the Windows UI too is mostly rendered using Direct3D (which is comparable to OpenGL) since Vista.
I hope someone else uses this for a new Linux distro.
pjmlp 12 hours ago [-]
Well, given that so many folks always argue they are Linux distros even though it is an implementation detail for userspace APIs, ChromeOS, WebOS and Android.
xixixao 7 hours ago [-]
Love Blender, but it’s GUI, especially anything that could use native OS components, is not what I love about it (judged on macOS).
ppmpreetham 6 hours ago [-]
Hi, we currently don't have a macOS build yet, we're planning to do both native and GUI both !!
dailyimproving 7 hours ago [-]
[dead]
boguscoder 4 hours ago [-]
Curious what’s the plan to keep it in sync with blender changes, if any? GUI layer doesn’t change often but still
ppmpreetham 4 hours ago [-]
currently it looks great! we can always keep adding the newer components and other stuff
gen2brain 8 hours ago [-]
But, can it work without GPU? All native toolkits have fallback to software rendering. I do not uderstand what is gained, cpu was good enough for that since Windows 95 era? Just do not redraw every frame like in games but retain instead?
Nice. I have my own GPU GUI toolkit I'm satisfied with and developed because I did not want to have yet another imgui looking app that required gpu accelerated UI toolkit.
But, if I did not invest last two years into my own toolkit, I'd definitively consider.
michaelanckaert 6 hours ago [-]
I'm interested to learn more, do you have link?
the__alchemist 8 hours ago [-]
I'm excited, and will try this! Its provenance speaks loads, as Blender is a beacon of software design, open-source or otherwise.
I'm an EGUI fanboy, but am looking to truly compare it to other things, especially non-immediate mode. I have no gripes with EGUI, other than it seems to create an application size floor, and I suspect memory use could be better. It has never blocked me, including for complex applications with GPU rendering etc.
Blender is peak OSS. I'm in! Will give this a shot for my next limited-scope application. I'm also experimenting with GPUUI.
I will try Slint if I ever do embedded with a full GUI.
I will poke at this, because I saw the same sentiment in a HN thread yesterday:
>" You write Rust or React and want a native desktop UI without shipping a browser." You don't need to ship a browser to do GUIs in rust. Some people do, and justify it through comparisons to Electron (Tauri) - I suspect this is a pushback against that?
Another thing I will poke at from comments: If you're going to dismiss this as a non-native UI and therefor inferior: Post specifically what features your OS-native toolkit or OS conventions have that won't work here. (Is it hotkeys, color scheme, a Je-ne-sais quoi? What OS specifically? My pet theory is these are all MacOS users, but I'm not sure)
mwkaufma 3 hours ago [-]
Feels like intentional brand-confusion with Blender.
MobiusHorizons 1 hours ago [-]
It is a derivative work, isn’t that appropriate? Or are you saying it shouldn’t have blender in the name unless it’s owned or officially sanctioned by the company that owns the blender trademark?
10 hours ago [-]
actinium226 1 hours ago [-]
Love this.
lp92 5 hours ago [-]
Why should I consider this over say PySide6 for Python apps?
bita_nidir 10 hours ago [-]
Nice! I've been waiting for someone to do this for a long time. Now I'll just need to wait a bit longer for someone to apply this to FreeCAD. Boy oh boy!
mapcars 6 hours ago [-]
Those numbers look very impressive, I'll try it in some projects
andsoitis 7 hours ago [-]
> The GPU renderer is opt-in: Direct3D 11 on Windows (gpu/intern/gpu_d3d11.c) and OpenGL 3.3 core on Linux (gpu/intern/gpu_gl.c).
I have been remaking a Blender style UI in Kotlin for my Umamo project because I love Blender's UI that much.
I think I will keep going with my own efforts, but this looks nice!
ppmpreetham 10 hours ago [-]
Yess, never stop building!
We also have a kotlin binding support coming soon, btw!
scotty79 13 hours ago [-]
That sounds like an amazing idea. I've been using a lot of Rust+GPUI and sometimes behaviors that I'm expecting to be there just aren't.
Swapping it for UI that's as battle tested as Blender might improve things.
_odi_ 13 hours ago [-]
Super curious about the limitations you see in GPUI! I built a custom rust UI framework for the software i am developing but i always kept an eye on GPUI, what is limiting about it in your opinion?
Narishma 5 hours ago [-]
A glaring limitation is that it requires a modern GPU, which makes it unusable in many contexts.
zigzag312 10 hours ago [-]
I'm curious about the limitations too.
GPUI and Makepad are the two Rust UI frameworks that seem the most interesting for what I'm looking for in a UI framework (hybrid immediate/retained mode, self-drawn widgets, open source).
scotty79 9 hours ago [-]
Not so much limitations. Rather behaviors I'm used to, around scrolling content, input fields, splitters for resizing panes etc. Can't recall specifics right now. Just small things that I usually get out of the box had to be implemented here.
gostsamo 12 hours ago [-]
not a single mention of a11y or accessibility, so please be careful before using it for general purpose applications.
spider-mario 10 hours ago [-]
That was my first thought as well. It would have been reassuring to at least see it on the roadmap.
ppmpreetham 10 hours ago [-]
It'll be added soon!
phil-martin 2 hours ago [-]
[dead]
14 hours ago [-]
pjankiewicz 8 hours ago [-]
I don’t buy arguments like much faster than X. Take X let claude work on it for 2 days and it will be fast. In case of gpui I took the community version as a part of my project and it is quite fast because it is optimized for my app.
feelamee 8 hours ago [-]
so, why gpui not taking Claude?
keyle 12 hours ago [-]
It's obviously vibe coded, but it's quite well done by the look of the ideas and implementation.
Zecc 12 hours ago [-]
What makes you say that? It was the part that goes...
> The repository is built entirely using LLMs, with no human-written code. The drawing and interaction code is ported from Blender's sources, and the behavior is checked by tests: C, Python, Rust and JavaScript suites, the tkinter side-by-side programs and the GPU parity test.
...wasn't it?
Groxx 13 hours ago [-]
>Who wrote it?
>The repository is built entirely using LLMs, with no human-written code. ...
artemonster 12 hours ago [-]
and thats fine. without LLMs no human would have invested so much required time and effort to do this! and now such awesome things are possible with a bit of tokens and a small prompt. overall a win
holoduke 8 hours ago [-]
It would be nice if the original chat history with claude is included in the repo. That way design choices are clear and its easier to review and improve upon.
opem 10 hours ago [-]
Until the project gets abondoned after a few days, perhaps months. :)
orbital-decay 9 hours ago [-]
Maybe, or maybe not. Let the fittest survive. Also what is developed in a few days can be easily picked up in a few days.
doublerabbit 7 hours ago [-]
And that is fine; until an malicious actor pushes a PR of "add a botnet that connects to an IRC CnC" somewhere in to the code.
e-topy 1 hours ago [-]
Why does the Rust example look so much different than Blender? Or the other examples?
Why are the progress bars gradients? Blender doesn't use a single foreground gradient. Why is there a shadow on the thick status bars in the middle? Why are headings different colors? Why are there badges? The fuck is this, tailwind? The icon on the dropdown menu top right isn't centered properly. Right to jail, right away
parasti 10 hours ago [-]
"Decoupled from project by external developer" generally means "with a very high chance of immediate bitrot".
creata 10 hours ago [-]
If you're going to ask Claude to write a library with a web version, can you also ask Claude to write a web playground?
rao-v 4 hours ago [-]
"People spent decades building and optimizing Blender's GUI. It's battery and memory efficient, and super duper fast. We decoupled it, to give everyone a chance to build their own products with it."
Is it just me, or is this late stage token-utopia derangement? It took me quite a few tries before I could put Blender to any actual use because of how ... unusual ... the UI was.
p-e-w 13 hours ago [-]
I’ve thought many times “Man, those widgets look terrible!”
I’ve not once thought “Man, those widgets are slow!”
spoiler 12 hours ago [-]
I never found them terrible, but I guess I spent a long time staring at them so maybe I just got used to them.
Do Maya and others have better UIs? Honestly, I find them more repulsive than Blender's
cute_boi 3 hours ago [-]
Yea, but UI/UX looks very bad.
mempko 3 hours ago [-]
I have been using blender since 1998. In the mid 2000s I pulled out the blender UI for a project but never published it and the project died. I have been waiting for a project like this for 28 years! Amazing job.
Question, is there an effort to have blender use the library? Avoiding drift would be really important.
samiv 8 hours ago [-]
But is there a UI editor?
Is it retained mode UI?
brcmthrowaway 4 hours ago [-]
This is cool. But can I write the UI in an XML file?
ppmpreetham 3 hours ago [-]
Give me an example
brcmthrowaway 56 minutes ago [-]
Look up TouchOSC and its layout engine. I need this functionality in BUI
pmkary 7 hours ago [-]
Amazing Amazing Project
quotemstr 8 hours ago [-]
No system theme matching? No system fonts? A fast UI toolkit is great, but so is one that matches the rest of my desktop.
ppmpreetham 4 hours ago [-]
creator here, will add it soon!
et1337 7 hours ago [-]
Is this even a thing anymore? The only app I can think of that matches the system theme is GIMP… not exactly a paragon of design
quotemstr 4 hours ago [-]
Uh, all the major browsers at least attempt some theme-following.
That README is the most uncanny thing I've seen recently. I still have no idea what this thing actually is, what the layers are if any... it's talking about C, Rust, HTML, CSS, node, bun, react, Python, Qt, QuickJS, DearIMGUI, etc.
But what is actually in that project? All of those things? Just a C runtime? Why not talk about what the barebones C runtime gives you first (memory, runtime), then add whatever layer on top? Or is it all-in-one always?
Lockal 8 hours ago [-]
The project is dishonest. Maybe AI agent was instructed to split Blender UI code, but what happened instead is AI implemented a classic immediate UI, not even reading the code.
I just tried few very standard operations that every Blender user knows:
1) Drag vertically across multiple number inputs to enter multiedit mode - failed (even though main page advertises this: "Drag down across X, Y and Z to edit all three at once")
2) Hover on field, press Ctrl+C, hover on another field - press Ctrl+V - failed
3) Press shift while dragging - it glitched
4) Scale UI - failed
5) Collapse collapsible block - failed
6) Right click - reset to default - failed
7) Jump to next field with Tab (while editing) - failed
8) Automatic alt accelerators - failed
9) Tooltips - N/A
10) AI slop: funny cursors, focus outline
So basically it is more like styled imgui (less polished than Blender), rather than Blender's UI.
I'm not saying that it is impossible to do a honest implementation, but one needs to kick agent much more to prevent cheating, and actually know how Blender UI works.
ppmpreetham 8 hours ago [-]
Hi, the creator here.
It works perfectly on my machine, and another friend's machine.
Just to be sure, which demo did you try? the website or python or rust?
Probably it works in other implementations (I did not try); in web it produces <input type="text"> and agent likely gave up trying to simulate such details there.
ppmpreetham 7 hours ago [-]
Oh yes, the web implementations there for mockup.
Let me update the web samples. Thank you!
ppmpreetham 5 hours ago [-]
they're updated, check it !
IshKebab 13 hours ago [-]
Definitely a worthy goal but they've gone down a super weird route by providing clones of other GUI toolkit APIs on top of this. Your target audience is people that are ok with vibe coding. They don't care about switching to a proper Blender-style API.
Just because you can...
MomsAVoxell 13 hours ago [-]
More like a “why not both” situation, imho. I have apps I could port to use this immediately.
antman 13 hours ago [-]
License of GPUI is Apache and BlenderUI is GPL, which is limiting for adoption.
the__alchemist 6 hours ago [-]
Missed this - this is a deal breaker for many (most?) potential applications. GPL is fine for applications like Blender, but is limiting for libs.
chii 11 hours ago [-]
GPL is the best opensource license. But seeing this as a library, it might need to be LGPL rather than pure GPL (ala, you can use it as a library without "tainting" your source, but if you make modifications to the library, you must release it).
ppmpreetham 10 hours ago [-]
Hello, creator here.
I don't think we can use LGPL since we were derived from Blender's Source code, which is GPL.
solyin 11 hours ago [-]
AGPL if you wanna be serious about it.
chii 11 hours ago [-]
May be, but AGPL is intended for server based apps, rather than local apps (which i presume this library is intended, but i suppose the javascript part can be considered to fall into the server category).
kitkarl 9 hours ago [-]
Blender continues being the GOAT
anthk 9 hours ago [-]
Cool but Blender's interface is not a general purpose UI. EGUI/GPUI and the rest are.
10 hours ago [-]
Aeolun 7 hours ago [-]
But is it built in Rust?
ppmpreetham 7 hours ago [-]
The source code is in C/C++, there's no need to port it to rust
contingencies 11 hours ago [-]
OK who's gonna burn the tokens rewriting a whole Linux system with BUI? You know you want to...
ppmpreetham 10 hours ago [-]
Lol, I'll showcase that project in the website if someone actually does that
psygn89 2 hours ago [-]
Do it!
contingencies 9 hours ago [-]
BlenderOS
ppmpreetham 3 hours ago [-]
that's gonna be crazy.
not gonna lie, that's actually doable
11 hours ago [-]
luckydata 12 hours ago [-]
This project would benefit from a longer Readme.
10 hours ago [-]
dogleash 4 hours ago [-]
>People spent decades building and optimizing Blender's GUI. It's battery and memory efficient, and super duper fast. We decoupled it, to give everyone a chance to build their own products with it.
Who is "we," and what's the long term plan?
It's a shiny presentation, but I don't see anything on offer more than a solo dev who pointed AI at the Blender codebase. I could do that myself, and many of the reasons I don't do that apply directly to why I'd never use this project.
I think the GitHub readme and the docs site are dishonestly presenting the state of the project.
arbor-group 7 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
pavelsich 8 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
ahmedvdemir 10 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
clilog_d 13 hours ago [-]
[dead]
grougnax 12 hours ago [-]
[dead]
andsoitis 13 hours ago [-]
Use the native widget toolkit if the platform you target; your users will love you more.
swiftcoder 13 hours ago [-]
Most native widget toolkits don't actually support rendering into 3d canvasses very well, nor very compact UI layouts. I generally prefer native widgets, but for a dense prosumer application, they aren't always the correct choice (and you'll see even Apple stray from their native UI widgets for, say, Logic Pro)
pjmlp 12 hours ago [-]
They actually do, just not on GNU/Linux, **BSD worlds.
scns 11 hours ago [-]
Apple bought Logic.
swiftcoder 11 hours ago [-]
> Apple bought Logic.
A quarter-century ago, yes. If they haven't migrated to native widgets in 25 years, that might be an indicator of something
9 hours ago [-]
creata 10 hours ago [-]
None of the apps on my computer have any sort of cohesion with each other. It might just be me but I think this idea is dead, on Windows and Linux at least.
p-e-w 13 hours ago [-]
I target all platforms, and so does most other desktop software today.
bvrmn 12 hours ago [-]
Ok for linux it's GTK and Qt. What's native for windows in 2026? It's a complete joke of system UI.
But the premise is silly: if Linux has two native toolkits, how is this a sensible recommendation?? Hint: it isn’t, because GTK/Qt are not the native, but rather simply the most used.
Also, go to Mac, and SwiftUI still doesn’t support all that AppKit used to, leaving an incentive for developers to deviate from the platform’s recommendation.
And back to Windows, WinUI still doesn’t fully replace Win32 or Windows Forms, so same conclusion applies.
spider-mario 9 hours ago [-]
> But the premise is silly: if Linux has two native toolkits, how is this a sensible recommendation?? Hint: it isn’t, because GTK/Qt are not the native, but rather simply the most used.
I’m going to hazard the claim that in probably most people’s conception of the term, GTK is native in GNOME, Cinnamon, Xfce, etc. and Qt is native in KDE, LXQt and Sailfish OS.
anonymous908213 12 hours ago [-]
I am pretty sure HN is an enclave of the only remaining people in the world who think this way. A sanctuary preserving the last specimens of an endangered species.
But the worst part is all code snippets are followed by an image which is not related to the code snippet. It's not what you get by typing the code... it's something completely different.
I remember someone once created a GitHub issue requesting I turn the README into some verbose technical thing with full API docs and a bunch of people replied saying they greatly preferred the "pitch + high-level examples" style.
but also the fact that yours is the most upvoted comment tells me there are entire swathes of people for whom that style works, and i am interested to get in people's heads about that, because it might yield some insight re: for what kind of audience these labs are optimising the style of text these models generate. so, if someone is reading this comment, and you broadly agree with the comment i am replying to, please answer these questions:
1. is english your native language?
2. what about the prose do you find appealing?
3. do you not find the structure (colossal wall of text, infodumping about largely irrelevant details) annoying/noisy?
4. does the word-to-word style and clichéd phrasing not immediately set off your llm alarm bells?
i guess people can answer if they disagree too, if they really want to
To the project maintainer: don’t ask people to read a terrible AI generated sales pitch novella that quantifies your AI generated port against every UI framework out there.
Here’s the obvious giveaways:
“ 4. The many ways in” “ Python, four ways”
“ tkinter: all 7,846 public names of tkinter and ttk. Nine real programs behave identically on the standard library and on BUI.”
“ Rust: the web platform, natively”
Ugh it’s excruciating. You’re better off with a readme that shows a few screenshots and installation instructions.
1 - thanks to the poster that mentioned nausea, I've been looking for the word to describe LLM based writing for a while and it's perfect.
"down to earth" and "hobby-project" does a good job. its still not perfect but better than the vanilla output. eg. https://github.com/busssard/OpenRing
This is further evidence of the need for small models doing specific things well.
Where I would say models fit in the process is establishing the general layout of documentation and iteratively refining things out. Interestingly, it’s the same for image generation too. But 9 out of 10 it creates incomplete work that needs refinement.
Go wide, then hone in, refine. There’s no such thing as getting AI to single shot creative tasks. Which is funny because everyone thought writers are on the chopping block initially, but that is unequivocally NOT the case.
Even technical tasks, agents doing it their own way yields garbage in some right. It’s just a question of how long it runs before it goes down a path of no return.
Human in the loop is the only way. And, to be honest, what’s the f*king rush anyway? We all need to slow down. Good ideas with unravel in time. :)
like, if people are gonna be turning the crank to generate prose-like text from statistical models and calling it a day, aren't "subagents" a hip new thing nowadays? there do exist models that aren't overcooked to impressively bad long-tail in the pursuit of maximum coding benchmark scores. such other models generate prose-like text that is significantly less miserable to wade through.
if you're a vibecoder who's terminally committed to the bit, for god's sake, at least tell a local gemma to draft your readme or something. an occasional outright falsehood is less damaging to usability than the experience of reading feeling like trudging through a pool filled with treacle. (mind, both are a violation of trust, and a failure to deliver proof of work, and please stop, but at least if the falsehoods are comprehensible and identifiable there's light at the end of the tunnel)
Edit: I found reading those examples in the most sanctimonious voice I could imagine seemed very plausible - maybe LLMs sound like they are up their own arse.
Then, the README very quickly continues with "What BUI is" and "Why BUI exists". These are all the exact things I want to know, ASAP, when I encounter a new project. The language reads perfectly fine to me.
Here is another example of a nice README: https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv
Do you know what I don't want to know first? What the startup time is, what language you wrote it in (because you think it makes your project cooler), some other random internal details about the performance of the thing, when I don't even yet know what the thing is.
You mean something like:
> turns it into a standalone UI library with a small C core
...?
Or this:
> At the heart of BUI is the kit: a small runtime written in C
......??
I personally have no issue of this, but the more I read your comments the more confused I got.
"Blender's user interface, as a library you can use from Python, Rust, JavaScript (React, Svelte), C, C++ and Dear ImGui."
This tells me a huge amount of what I need to know, if I'm interested in this project or not.
Compare it to another very recent example posted on hn: https://github.com/rivet-dev/rivet - You need to get some way down the page until it discloses what you might be able to do with the project. https://github.com/rivet-dev/rivet#use-cases
But by that stage, even though it isn't very far down the page, I'm already checked out.
We also have a discord server, lmk if you're planning on using BUI!
If that's an LLM-ism, then it's one that I hope spreads.
And I do appreciate the effort that goes into it, especially in the latest versions as it got much better,
But I really really really REALLY don't want that UI in anything else other than Blender.
Please don't.
If you're already using Blender to make assets, there's some benefit to stuffing Blender's UI into your game editor too.
Not in an age of AI.
I mean if you want to code all this stuff by hand, I get it. But that's a choice. And since it's a choice that means shoehorning a Blender UI into a "bargain-basement game editor" (and having a "bargain basement game editor) isnt really needed. You absolutely don't need to spend a lot of time arranging UI stuff.
Game tooling is pretty trivial now and it's not user-facing. Again, I fully understand why someone would want to do this themselves still but let's not pretend thats not a choice at this point.
Edit: the snark I’m responding to has been edited out
I have used 3Ds max, maya, lightwave, cinema4D, milkshape, wings, Houdini, unreal engine 1 - 5, Hammer, Threejs editor and probably more. The Blender UI is worse than all of the above.
Zbrush is ok.
You've given quite a list of tools with different purpose.
For 3D work I would personally rate
Modo 3D, Zbrush > Blender, Houdini > Softimage XSI > Maya > space intentionally left empty :P > 3Ds max
Blender UI looks very nice and is very customizable. I think it's "ok" in beginner discoverability (none of 3D softs is great at that really) but when you get experienced with it it's one of the best.
I really like how they managed to keep all the tools and views pretty consistent given how many things you can do in it. Whether you are working on objects, vertices, nodes, movie clips you get the same shortcuts where possible.
3Ds max being dead last is fitting, people who think it's peak UI just have stockholm syndrome in my opinion.
Maybe some of them do, but even though I disliked the UI at first, I've come to appreciate it as I've learned it. It's simply different from most other software, so that obviously causes friction. However, I think once you learn it, it's quite a good system. There's a tradeoff between optimizing for familiarity/new users, and providing an optimized experience for advanced users.
Blender does a LOT of stuff. Its not an easy product to create an UI for. But I think the problem is much bigger when coming from a different 3D package than when learning from scratch.
My teenage kids use Blender as the first 3D package they've ever learned. I was impressed with how quickly they ramped up through videos and learning from each other.
My baby duck fingers could probably pick up LightWave 3D again in an hour or two. I could never gel with Blender.
A lot of people go "Blender UI was horrible, but they redesigned the whole thing and now it is good" Having used blender in a minor role for 20 years(i think I started on 1.7), I think this was just a big psyop by the blender team. Sort of how the client goes "Change things" and you change nothing, wait a day, and tell the client "I made the changes you requested" client: "I love it"
I am not saying the blender team has not made substantial improvements to the UI over the years, but the core is still that same quick blender workflow, This is very different from the normal clunky GUI design of 3d modelers of the era and as such blender got a reputation for having a weird UI which was easily translated to blender having a bad UI. So what do you do when you have an unwarranted bad reputation? Especially now that the rest of the world has caught up and is using your flows and they are not so weird anymore. Make a dark mode and put out a big press release "we redesigned everything, it's good now" so people will try it.
> Baby duck syndrome is a cognitive bias where people automatically prefer the first system, interface, or product they learn to use, judging all later versions or alternatives by how well they match that initial experience.
That's actually extremely common in scientific (GUI) software. And in any professional setting I guess.
I don't think that qualifies. There's an important distinction to be made between an aesthetic preference versus a professional not appreciating a tool being mucked with. Anything that interferes with my workflow without immediately providing substantial benefit is something that's actively harmful. In fact even if it does hypothetically provide huge benefits I still might not want to deal with it right this second.
So if it's for an employer it's rational but if you're making the same choice for yourself it isn't? If one of those is baby duck syndrome they all are.
As in, that people who refuse change in their play activity are in some way different (less rational? more "syndromatic"?) than those who refuse change in their breadwinning activity.
I see the distinction, but am not sure I agree. It's just a neurotype spectrum of the same phenomenon. Baby duck is baby duck
I absolutely detest it (TBF I haven't used it for the past ~2 years) but I also recognize that it's an incredibly difficult problem space that lacks an obviously good solution, the tool itself is inherently and irreducibly complex, it's a free project with extremely limited resources, it's been consistently improving over time, etc, etc.
It is actually a miracle that it is as good as it is considering other open source graphics programs like GIMP are horrendous to use.
Fundamentally all 3d modelers have inherent degree of complexity. The ones that give a "simple" facade with fewer options make other things harder or having to look into obscure places.
All of that are beside the point however: people will use this as a GUI library, not as a Blender's UX design.
It is not a UI paradigm that you would use for just anything, but for certain poweruser software it is one of the best paradigms I have seen, especially since they managed to get rid of 90% of the rough corners in the past decade of development.
But a good design system does the trick. Artcraft apps use this library and their Adobe clones come very close to the original apps.
Q: “Whats wrong with tkinter?!?!”
A: It sucks, that’s what!
That UI is fine to be on many more places than Blender, given that many libraries people use are way worse. Imgui for one example.
Yeah you can do that. If you have low standards and don't need control of the details.
Now as an adult, I can see why they removed it. It didn't make sense to put resources into it.
I'm really happy about the UPBGE project. It doesn't compare to the capabilities of Godot, but that's okay. It just makes me happy that someone else cared about it enough to pour time into it.
I do hate vibe coding. So I took a different approach for BUI.
Instead of asking the agent to decouple the UI, I asked it to remove all the parts which isn't a part of UI logic.
Turns out AI is pretty good at removing than generating.
That's an interesting distinction. A distinction without a difference in my opinion, but a distinction nonetheless!
These are CPU-only times for the state management / style / layout / etc, but don't include rasterization (additional work in the benchmark harness required to measure GPU time sensibly), probably aren't fully apples-to-apples, and could probably do with testing some more complex layouts.
The main thing GPUI has going for it is mind share and that's a great thing to have. The mind share is unfortunately highly fragmented though as the original authors are not interested in selling a GUI library. Hopefully the community efforts will come together to produce a more polished and general library. A well used library is better than a better designed one maintained by a single person.
It’d be like naming my http library HTTP.
And it’s why Dear IMGUI isn’t just named “IMGUI”.
https://cleanshot.com/share/WW9yFdMy
When they tried to jump on newer trends they made them all monochrome, and they don't have distinctive sillouettes so it's just completely inscrutable. That Inkscape screenshot is horrible. I count 129 icons.
And yet they still devote so much space to their bizarre colour palette, which is huge but still manages to omit most of the gamut? It's the kind of design that really only comes from decades of OSS development.
[0]: https://gradia.alexandervanhee.be/ [1]: https://www.pinta-project.com/ [2]: https://krita.org/en/
I’d be interested to know what you think about it
[0]: https://github.com/daijro/paint.rs
Especially since v2 and v3 have vastly different consequences.
GPL makes sense for applications like Blender. For a general purpose library, it's a dealbreaker.
But that wouldn't work for a straight derivative of a GPL project.
It's time to do it! Also we have a discord, if you end up reviving it, do share it over here:
https://discord.gg/MWXZfdyM3D
Also speaking of FastAPI, have you checked out FastRAPI?
> The drawing code is a C port of Blender's own widget code
How can we guarantee BUI is still performant?
Was recently trying to learn a desktop toolkit again and was disappointed that the docs of pygtk and rust/iced end around page three. Many projects, little follow up. Probably should pick a toolkit from the 90s instead.
This seems different. Also, tabs that look like tabs! Love it.
Check out the docs here: https://bui.preetham.top/
[1] https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty
[2] https://calibre-ebook.com/
I hope someone else uses this for a new Linux distro.
But, if I did not invest last two years into my own toolkit, I'd definitively consider.
I'm an EGUI fanboy, but am looking to truly compare it to other things, especially non-immediate mode. I have no gripes with EGUI, other than it seems to create an application size floor, and I suspect memory use could be better. It has never blocked me, including for complex applications with GPU rendering etc.
Blender is peak OSS. I'm in! Will give this a shot for my next limited-scope application. I'm also experimenting with GPUUI.
I will try Slint if I ever do embedded with a full GUI.
I will poke at this, because I saw the same sentiment in a HN thread yesterday: >" You write Rust or React and want a native desktop UI without shipping a browser." You don't need to ship a browser to do GUIs in rust. Some people do, and justify it through comparisons to Electron (Tauri) - I suspect this is a pushback against that?
Another thing I will poke at from comments: If you're going to dismiss this as a non-native UI and therefor inferior: Post specifically what features your OS-native toolkit or OS conventions have that won't work here. (Is it hotkeys, color scheme, a Je-ne-sais quoi? What OS specifically? My pet theory is these are all MacOS users, but I'm not sure)
Direct3D is at version 12 on Windows[1].
What tech on macOS? OpenGL?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct3D
I think I will keep going with my own efforts, but this looks nice!
We also have a kotlin binding support coming soon, btw!
Swapping it for UI that's as battle tested as Blender might improve things.
GPUI and Makepad are the two Rust UI frameworks that seem the most interesting for what I'm looking for in a UI framework (hybrid immediate/retained mode, self-drawn widgets, open source).
> The repository is built entirely using LLMs, with no human-written code. The drawing and interaction code is ported from Blender's sources, and the behavior is checked by tests: C, Python, Rust and JavaScript suites, the tkinter side-by-side programs and the GPU parity test.
...wasn't it?
>The repository is built entirely using LLMs, with no human-written code. ...
Why are the progress bars gradients? Blender doesn't use a single foreground gradient. Why is there a shadow on the thick status bars in the middle? Why are headings different colors? Why are there badges? The fuck is this, tailwind? The icon on the dropdown menu top right isn't centered properly. Right to jail, right away
Is it just me, or is this late stage token-utopia derangement? It took me quite a few tries before I could put Blender to any actual use because of how ... unusual ... the UI was.
I’ve not once thought “Man, those widgets are slow!”
Do Maya and others have better UIs? Honestly, I find them more repulsive than Blender's
Question, is there an effort to have blender use the library? Avoiding drift would be really important.
Is it retained mode UI?
But what is actually in that project? All of those things? Just a C runtime? Why not talk about what the barebones C runtime gives you first (memory, runtime), then add whatever layer on top? Or is it all-in-one always?
I just tried few very standard operations that every Blender user knows:
1) Drag vertically across multiple number inputs to enter multiedit mode - failed (even though main page advertises this: "Drag down across X, Y and Z to edit all three at once")
2) Hover on field, press Ctrl+C, hover on another field - press Ctrl+V - failed
3) Press shift while dragging - it glitched
4) Scale UI - failed
5) Collapse collapsible block - failed
6) Right click - reset to default - failed
7) Jump to next field with Tab (while editing) - failed
8) Automatic alt accelerators - failed
9) Tooltips - N/A
10) AI slop: funny cursors, focus outline
So basically it is more like styled imgui (less polished than Blender), rather than Blender's UI.
I'm not saying that it is impossible to do a honest implementation, but one needs to kick agent much more to prevent cheating, and actually know how Blender UI works.
It works perfectly on my machine, and another friend's machine. Just to be sure, which demo did you try? the website or python or rust?
Probably it works in other implementations (I did not try); in web it produces <input type="text"> and agent likely gave up trying to simulate such details there.
Let me update the web samples. Thank you!
Just because you can...
I don't think we can use LGPL since we were derived from Blender's Source code, which is GPL.
Who is "we," and what's the long term plan?
It's a shiny presentation, but I don't see anything on offer more than a solo dev who pointed AI at the Blender codebase. I could do that myself, and many of the reasons I don't do that apply directly to why I'd never use this project.
I think the GitHub readme and the docs site are dishonestly presenting the state of the project.
A quarter-century ago, yes. If they haven't migrated to native widgets in 25 years, that might be an indicator of something
But the premise is silly: if Linux has two native toolkits, how is this a sensible recommendation?? Hint: it isn’t, because GTK/Qt are not the native, but rather simply the most used.
Also, go to Mac, and SwiftUI still doesn’t support all that AppKit used to, leaving an incentive for developers to deviate from the platform’s recommendation.
And back to Windows, WinUI still doesn’t fully replace Win32 or Windows Forms, so same conclusion applies.
I’m going to hazard the claim that in probably most people’s conception of the term, GTK is native in GNOME, Cinnamon, Xfce, etc. and Qt is native in KDE, LXQt and Sailfish OS.